Sexism, god help us (2 Viewers)

I'm only trying to form my thoughts about this, but i've been sorta background thinking - you know the way people talk about men calling out mens behavoir - like do they understand that unless we are close, we don't talk, and even then, men just don't know about these things. I've never had a male aquaintence tell me he was out groping women in the bar or up to stalking or whatever
I suppose the thing to do is cut that stuff off before it gets to that stage, telling our mates to cop on when they make some shitty comment or sexist joke, trying to end the culture of tolerance for the minor things before they build up to the big ones.

Edit: What Jonah said essentially.
 
So my thoughts on this is that men often witness or participate in "small" aggressions against women, sexist jokes, catcalling, not leaving girls the fuck alone in public, guys making shitty comments about girls when they're out, etc. These are not the same as killing a woman on a canal, but they create a culture that dehumanizes women.

That's fair - I guess I was looking at the unseen stuff - women have more knowledge about it than i do. But fair enough - like i think a bit of that comes down to things mentioned above about men and how we see or percieve confrontation - and a lot of men will put the head down and mosey on because it becomes a risk scenario to challenge the idiot gang, and collectively we are idiots in fairness.

I'd an experience mid summer where a few jocks were acting a bit sketch at the beach, so for craic I went over and berated them for it. These are lads 15 years younger than me, two inches taller than me with baywatch muscles. There was a woman involved, drugs involved and they were out of order. They just melted in seconds and whimperd back to their crate of rockshore. Young men seem to just push and push at boundaries until someone shuts them down. I have very little fear about this kinda thing but a very large amount of men are not going to walk into a scenario that could put them in hospital for the sake of a stranger, however, i think that's what it takes in reality, i think that is what you are talking about?

Anywhoo, thanks for talking to us. I can see the strain this is putting on women, i can't understand it for real but fair play to you for having to the patience to speak to us eijits.
 
I think it's interesting that when this topic came up, all us dick-swingers ended up talking about getting battered in Wexford or wherever.
And I must admit, I was going to talk about exactly that myself, but I just didn't.


Doesn't it kind of miss the point that it's just different for women? I guess we're trying to relate or empathise, but it's not the same thing.


And Jesus, we're the good guys.

I was thinking about you lads talking about that. I genuinely can't remember feeling in danger just going around minding my business, anywhere, day or night. Ever. Even the hint of trouble I've always been able to talk myself out of it.

Maybe that's my own naivete or maybe it's to do with being a big bollocks whose default expression is to have a big puss on me; big dude privilege. I may actually be a big wimpy softy but I'm perceived, because of my appearance and body, to not be an easy target.

We allow women to be perceived as easy targets because we let each other away with the small shit and it snowballs.
 
those things happening have less to do with the state of the man's mental health than they have to do with the culture they live in which makes bad behaviour towards women tolerated and makes them feel entitled and emboldened to do those things because they they'll get away with them without facing proper consequences.
This very much depends on what "things happening" you mean. If you feel entitled and emboldened to murder women in Ireland, then I contend that it's very likely that you are mentally ill
 
This very much depends on what "things happening" you mean. If you feel entitled and emboldened to murder women in Ireland, then I contend that it's very likely that you are mentally ill

You don't have to be insane to kill someone. I don't see why the gender of a victim would inherently mean that their killer is mentally ill.

Also, mentally ill people are part of, and are influenced by, the society in which they live. The circumstances of their illness may or may not have an impact on their impulse control and might have an impact on a propensity for violence, but what puts it in their head that women are a target and men aren't. An entirely irrational person would be as likely to act in a violent manner towards a small child as they are to Paul O'Connell or someone like that.

Also, people who are mentally ill are far more likely to the victims of violence than the perpetrators of it.
 
If by "legislate" you mean "pass laws" then yes - murder is illegal, like. You can't pre-emptively lock people up to stop them committing crimes though

How about laws that all boys and men have to attend courses on how women should be treated, consent etc. Or laws banning all single sex schools. Lots of legislation can be passed to help prevent these attacks that don't involve any future crime bolloxology.
 
That's not what I said - I said if you feel "entitled and emboldened to murder women", then you're probably mentally ill.

I would agree somewhat in the cases like what appears to be the situation this week where a woman was "randomly*" killed by some guy. But plenty of men just kill their wives. In fact the majority of women who are murdered are killed by someone that they know.

* I say randomly, but I'm as close to positive and I can be that she was selected because of her gender.
 
I know that this is unrelated to the general discussion of sexism, but am I right in understanding that the gardai basically grabbed a local romanian and were fine with this just being an open-and-shut story? like this crime is barely two days old and already we have colossal police incompetence and racism? am I getting this wrong?
 
I've a mate who, if you met him, you'd think is a bit of a lad, the kind who would love "banter" around the lockerroom and all that. He doesn't though, he absolutely hates it, and back when we worked together he used to leave the gym fuming every second day over the shit that he was hearing from other lads. I'd talk to him about it and some of it was fucking horrible but he said he'd just say nothing or say "ah now" half jokingly and leave it that or he'd be totally isolated in there.

To disengage from it slightly it's interesting that clearly I had/have a bit of a reputation as not the kind of person who would engage in that kind of talk so I never saw it myself, I was completely oblivious to some of the stuff that was happening in work. I always felt sorry for my mate having to deal with it all, but I couldn't really expect him to spend all day correcting all the other lads when I didn't have to deal with them. Or could I? I dunno.

This stuff goes deep, DEEP, into society. There was a dumb twitter conversation trending the other day where some woman was moaning about how she hates men who cry, yes she realizes it's not the greatest attitude to have but that's "the reality" of the situation. Cool. No shortage of men who just need a single attractive woman to tell them that actually things were "better" when "men were men" to justify any kind of insane belief that they want to be true. I see it all the time, always boggles my mind.
 
I know that this is unrelated to the general discussion of sexism, but am I right in understanding that the gardai basically grabbed a local romanian and were fine with this just being an open-and-shut story? like this crime is barely two days old and already we have colossal police incompetence and racism? am I getting this wrong?

and on flipping back a couple of pages I see that you basically already dealt with this, ok, never mind
 
I'd an experience mid summer where a few jocks were acting a bit sketch at the beach, so for craic I went over and berated them for it. These are lads 15 years younger than me, two inches taller than me with baywatch muscles.
Lads our age can do what you've described and get away with it sometimes, because young lads see us as Da. If 25 year old (or 70 year old) you had done this you'd most likely have gotten your arse kicked
 
I suppose what I mean is that when you consider the gamut of things that are done to women by men that shouldn't be those things happening have less to do with the state of the man's mental health than they have to do with the culture they live in which makes bad behaviour towards women tolerated and makes them feel entitled and emboldened to do those things because they they'll get away with them without facing proper consequences.
Yeah, like say they get the murderer, and it's a white-collar well-off white Irish dude around 50-ish that lives in a nice part of Dublin and works for Dell or something. Judge Martin Nolan will give him a suspended sentence and say "Ah sure it could have happened to anyone really" or something like that.
 
Lads our age can do what you've described and get away with it sometimes, because young lads see us as Da. If 25 year old (or 70 year old) you had done this you'd most likely have gotten your arse kicked

This is a good point.

I think us lot, that would've been regarded as "soft boys" in our own home towns as younglings, somehow developed a bit of hard-man authority. And also, now that we're older and wiser, we give off a bit of "stop speaking and listen to me" energy, which the current younglings don't understand and are scared of. I think there's something in that
It's scary to be honest. I've shut down many a stupid man, but whenever I meet that one nutter, I'm fucked.

I think, with regard to the current conversation, we've gone back to talking about what "Being a Man" means. This is not a problem we're going to solve this year or next. I just meet and know a lot of young guys who don't have a fucking clue what they're supposed to be doing with themselves. And then there's a tiny proportion of them who end up doing horrible things, because honestly, they're clueless. They need guidance I suppose.
 
I know that this is unrelated to the general discussion of sexism, but am I right in understanding that the gardai basically grabbed a local romanian and were fine with this just being an open-and-shut story? like this crime is barely two days old and already we have colossal police incompetence and racism? am I getting this wrong?
that seems to be what happened taubstumm.

I fell for it but normally would have done my own research but didn't this time because I thought I wouldn't like what I found.
a lot of people who are generally suspicious of the cops, let go of that when rape or assault of women is involved and just let them get on with it - that's what I did. I won't jump to conclusions about them having the right suspect again.
 
I think, with regard to the current conversation, we've gone back to talking about what "Being a Man" means. This is not a problem we're going to solve this year or next. I just meet and know a lot of young guys who don't have a fucking clue what they're supposed to be doing with themselves. And then there's a tiny proportion of them who end up doing horrible things, because honestly, they're clueless. They need guidance I suppose.
I mean, this is it. I don't think any women need me to tell them how safe they are or are not, but there's a lot of lads out there who only have Joe Rogan for company.
 
I know that this is unrelated to the general discussion of sexism, but am I right in understanding that the gardai basically grabbed a local romanian and were fine with this just being an open-and-shut story? like this crime is barely two days old and already we have colossal police incompetence and racism? am I getting this wrong?

They also arrested what seems to be his sister and have remanded her in Mountjoy.
 
i've seen in some friends kids - 8/10/12 year olds - that they tune out women in conversations in which they clearly (but unconciously, i think) assume men have more authority in. i don't know where they're picking it up from, because several of the parents would be very conscious of it.
in one instance, i do know they have cousins whose dad is a bit of a throwback and those cousins are little shits, and i wonder is that enough to rub off on them?
or are all young boys when in groups like that, when they're at the 'ugh, girls' age?
 
I think it's interesting that when this topic came up, all us dick-swingers ended up talking about getting battered in Wexford or wherever.
And I must admit, I was going to talk about exactly that myself, but I just didn't.


Doesn't it kind of miss the point that it's just different for women? I guess we're trying to relate or empathise, but it's not the same thing.


And Jesus, we're the good guys.
Only 3 of us dick swingers in fairness. (Incl me)
I’d disagree it’s not relatable - fear of random physical attack is fear of physical attack

The difference is that’s categorised to a memory of a specific place and time - rather than a pervasive and recurring thing across my life.
 

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