Climate change global warming natural disaster freak weather etc. (4 Viewers)

If someone invited me to their yacht in Spain i'd be there in a flash.

Sorry its just for me and my woke buddies to talk about saving the planet on.

I agree though. Interesting test of the performative element of protest mixed with the real. I think someone mentioned here before the victims are kinda off site for the meantime, its not like everyones aunt is extinct because marriage equality and stone age abortion policy. We are only at droughts in southern spain so far.
 
Ah, this is the Sanders thing again, these are people who were never going to be on your side in the first place.
Eventually they're going to have to be on our side, or we're all fucked. Not all of them, but a lot of them. ER are just at the same crack that the ravers were at in the 90s, protesting against the Criminal Justice Act in the UK - or the Reclaim the Streets protests, or the anti-WTO protests. What did any of that protesting achieve? Fuck all, as far as I can see

If we don't win the normies over then we lose. School strikes/Greta Thunberg/David Attenborough are actually getting the attention of people like my parents/neighbours. ER gives them an excuse to dismiss the whole thing

/me shrugs

Not that it matters a shit what I think. I just hope they don't fuck everything up
 
Sorry its just for me and my woke buddies to talk about saving the planet on.

I agree though. Interesting test of the performative element of protest mixed with the real. I think someone mentioned here before the victims are kinda off site for the meantime, its not like everyones aunt is extinct because marriage equality and stone age abortion policy. We are only at droughts in southern spain so far.
Well, as @egg_ says above, sooner or later these people have to come over to your side and if your side is just woke-scolding people for enjoying life then you've already lost. I'm not saying Fully Automated Luxury Communism is the solution but it sounds a lot better than the Angry Juggler Vegan Scold Brigade.


Eventually they're going to have to be on our side, or we're all fucked. Not all of them, but a lot of them. ER are just at the same crack that the ravers were at in the 90s, protesting against the Criminal Justice Act in the UK - or the Reclaim the Streets protests, or the anti-WTO protests. What did any of that protesting achieve? Fuck all, as far as I can see

If we don't win the normies over then we lose. School strikes/Greta Thunberg/David Attenborough are actually getting the attention of people like my parents/neighbours. ER gives them an excuse to dismiss the whole thing

/me shrugs

Not that it matters a shit what I think. I just hope they don't fuck everything up
ah yeah, but these people made up their mind years ago, and they're already complaining about Greta Thunberg because they are just so concerned for her mental health. I haven't been following the Extinction Rebellion stuff that closely and I don't really intend to but I do know that living life constantly capitulating to the tutting centrist dad demographic hasn't worked out that well so far.
 
Well, as @egg_ says above, sooner or later these people have to come over to your side and if your side is just woke-scolding people for enjoying life then you've already lost. I'm not saying Fully Automated Luxury Communism is the solution but it sounds a lot better than the Angry Juggler Vegan Scold Brigade.

I just read the journal/twitter reaction and that was my kinda weather report and then that instagram post.. welll... The reaction I've been seeing there is mostly getajob/dieselgenerators/economy/richparents and maybe the more constructive comments are 'what is it exactly that they want' which makes me think the message is too vague for the moment.

My general consensus is that until we can figure out how to win over the FF/FG voting block everything is static. If you've spent 50grand on an SUV and half a million on suburban mansion and these people are ruining the trade in value on your balance sheet then you are going to use their instagram on a yacht lifestyle to discredit it. I'm easy to win over, these people aren't and stand to lose out short term which seems to be the concern.

A guy at work here put it very well in saying he sees it as either heading for mad max or star trek.
 
The comments on the journal tell me that we can "expect to get fleeced again".

WhAN692.jpg
 
While I'm generally a fan of ER and what they're doing I agree that I worry that they start to be seen to define the movement. Some of their stunts can take away from the message of what they're trying to get across. It's important that this doesn't turn into a crusty, liberal, true-hugging front setting the agenda. If it becomes a left thing or a eco-warrior thing, which intrinsically of course it is, but if it becomes that more than a science thing you'll lose swathes of the population.
 
Have to make sure that we focus on on actual issues that will lead to material change for people's lives don't we? I do agree with Ann that we probably need to get your average Fianna Fine voter on board as well but that probably more involves showing them how their life will improve rather than trying to meet them "halfway" at their ever-rightward-shifting goalposts.

And you'll never stop this guy:

EGWsDqMW4Aoh1xO



I'd rather show solidarity with the Extinction Rebellion people than throw them under a bus to appeal to Independent.ie columnists.
 
I'd rather show solidarity with the Extinction Rebellion people than throw them under a bus to appeal to Independent.ie columnists.
Well yes, I've gone to rallies they've organised and will continue to do so but that's not to say I'm not wary of how opponents will push the movement front and centre as a means of scaring off people who don't relate to those Boris Johnson describes as "uncooperative crusties” who should stop blocking the streets of capitals with their “heaving hemp-smelling bivouacs”.
 
Well yes, I've gone to rallies they've organised and will continue to do so but that's not to say I'm not wary of how opponents will push the movement front and centre as a means of scaring off people who don't relate to those Boris Johnson describes as "uncooperative crusties” who should stop blocking the streets of capitals with their “heaving hemp-smelling bivouacs”.
Can't wait for them to meet us halfway because they definitely will, right?


The people who are "put off" by a few crusties are the same people who are immediately convinced that every war is justified and are the same "silent majority" who voted to keep the 8th amendement.
 
I guess what i'm saying is we need to harden up, these people will always attack you and they will always claim to be the ones taking the "sensible" position, whether it be about dropping more bombs on weddings in Yemen or about not doing anything about the climate because a few crusties offended their sensibilities. Alt-centrism as they say.

We need to argue back and say no, you don't get to claim the sensible position on this, the sensible one is where we get to live. And if they get upset because you're rightly calling them out then good, it means we're winning.
 
The people who are "put off" by a few crusties are the same people who are immediately convinced that every war is justified and are the same "silent majority" who voted to keep the 8th amendement.
I'm not so sure you're right ... but then, the 8th was a political hot potato for years and only for the citizen's assembly there'd have been no vote to repeal, but then when there was a vote The People voted for repeal 2 to 1. Maybe it's the same for climate change? The argument's already been won, we just need the politicians to fucking wake up and realise it
 
I guess what i'm saying is we need to harden up, these people will always attack you and they will always claim to be the ones taking the "sensible" position, whether it be about dropping more bombs on weddings in Yemen or about not doing anything about the climate because a few crusties offended their sensibilities. Alt-centrism as they say.

We need to argue back and say no, you don't get to claim the sensible position on this, the sensible one is where we get to live. And if they get upset because you're rightly calling them out then good, it means we're winning.
Mmm, I'm not sure that does mean you're winning. If it becomes a major confrontation you've already lost. It's about how you frame the discourse. If you can say the science is clear, the governments (nominally at least) are committed; we just want them to keep their commitments. That's much better than saying it's this generations fault or this sector of the economy or the rural part of the country etc etc. Because people will double down. There needs to be some semblance of popular support before the government will properly go ahead and raise taxes, leave valuable resources in the ground, start to finally say no to large corporations and all the rest of it.

It's not really about winning the argument. The argument should already be won.
 
Mmm, I'm not sure that does mean you're winning. If it becomes a major confrontation you've already lost. It's about how you frame the discourse. If you can say the science is clear, the governments (nominally at least) are committed; we just want them to keep their commitments. That's much better than saying it's this generations fault or this sector of the economy or the rural part of the country etc etc. Because people will double down. There needs to be some semblance of popular support before the government will properly go ahead and raise taxes, leave valuable resources in the ground, start to finally say no to large corporations and all the rest of it.

It's not really about winning the argument. The argument should already be won.

Clearly the political argument is not already won or we'd already be there. Besides which, I was talking specifically about the lads on twitter, in the media, in your office, etc. who are moaning about Extinction Rebellion, because 9/10 these lads are doing fine, they're not struggling, they're not going to be affected by this first. What i'm saying is they're not the ones we need to spend time placating because they're either lost causes or bags of hot air who eventually go along with the consensus anyway. Otherwise we mostly agree.

I'm not so sure you're right ... but then, the 8th was a political hot potato for years and only for the citizen's assembly there'd have been no vote to repeal, but then when there was a vote The People voted for repeal 2 to 1. Maybe it's the same for climate change? The argument's already been won, we just need the politicians to fucking wake up and realise it

Yeah, that's true, gonna read through the last citizens assembly on climate action and see how we're doing.
 
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left wing facist bbc strikes again #sorus #kony2012 #newworldorder
 
I heard the protesters were handing out biscuits to motorists stuck in traffic today. It's a small thing but it's the sort of stuff that can go a long way, rather than being seen as preaching/scolding.
 
Mmm, I'm not sure that does mean you're winning. If it becomes a major confrontation you've already lost. It's about how you frame the discourse. If you can say the science is clear, the governments (nominally at least) are committed; we just want them to keep their commitments. That's much better than saying it's this generations fault or this sector of the economy or the rural part of the country etc etc. Because people will double down. There needs to be some semblance of popular support before the government will properly go ahead and raise taxes, leave valuable resources in the ground, start to finally say no to large corporations and all the rest of it.

It's not really about winning the argument. The argument should already be won.

LOL

its Fine Gael (or Fianna Fail, same difference)
all they are interested is money and their mates' monies
 
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