Tour De France winner Riis: "i doped" (1 Viewer)

[IFF]

so mr. 53 percent has came clean

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/may07/may26news

maybe in 11 years, we'll get the same admission for landis

 

[nofriendo]

Yeah saw that, it doesnt surprise me though after zabel and aldag came clean during the week. Basso is looking at a 21 month ban as well, it looks like the really are trying to clean the sport. Wouldnt hold my breath on landis though

 

[Eugene]

the funny thing is Riis won the 96 tour ahead of shitloads of riders implicated in dooping; Ullrich (caught last yr), Virenque (caught 1998) in 3rd, Dufaux (caught 1998) in 4th, the bloke in 5th was in Carera, Roches and Pantanis old team, which im convinced were EPO'd out of it in the 90s anyway, then Leblanc also admitted doping he was 6th and thats all I looked into,

and whats all this crap about only a 21 month ban for Basso - bullshit- thats so he can come back to the Giro in 2009, its supposed to be 2 yr ban!

 

[nuke terrorist]

read he was doing a conference and just heard what he said through the eurosport giro broadcast today - the news came through when the TT was finishing today.

there was a good article on Riis and the allegations he being living under since 1998 and how the Danish media haveturned the country against him for a longtime.

he is known as Mr. 60% to Danes. there was documents that came to public knowledge years ago that date from the mid 90's that show Riis's haematocrit was regularlly extremely high.
Jef D'Hont the soigneur whose allegations about his time with Telekom led to all this said on Belgian TV in late March that Riis' haematocrit reached 64 in the 1996 tour and it caused him to develop rheumatism. (cyclingnews.com march 26)
Zabel said he stopped taking EPO after it caused very low heartbeat and high temperature.
Udo Bolts, Rolf Aldag, Christian Henn, Bert Dietz, Brian Holm and both the doctors Schmid and Heinrich have all come clean. all of these people admitted only their own guilt they didn't name anyone else.

before Riis started taking EPO in 1993 he had a very mediocre career his best finishes in a big tour was 42nd in the 1991 giro, his next best finish in the several giros he rode was 86th in 1989 two places behind Paul Kimmage.
he finished 95th in 1989, didn't finish in 1990 and 104th in 1991 in his three tours before 1993. then he suddenly finished 5th that year. he didn't win a race in his first 3 years as a pro riding for small Belgian teams.
what were we supposed to think? we're not total fools.

he is surely the obviously doped rider in modern cycling history.

 

[flashback]

once again... more doping.
I think it is brave for Bjarne to come out and admit it. Everyone knows he, and the rest of them, were and (AFAIK) are still doping.
It takes balls to admit it, and maybe this will help the sport.


The fact of the matter is, the sport still doesn't care. You will know the moment the sport does care, because it will be the moment that Pat McQuaid et alia state that when a rider is caught doping, the charges go up and out.

A pro rider is only nominally responsible for his own body. People who get angry with specific riders do not understand the sport.
The people who are in charge of a rider's body are : the team doctor, and the Director Sportif.
They know all aspects of the rider, down to the time they take a dump. Believe me. I know what I am talking about here.
The rider does not take it upon himself to start doping. He does not go off and purchase drugs and work out schedules. The Director Sportif, in conjunction with the doctors do. The rider is told what to do, and what to take, and will get shots and blood transfusions along with everything else in his life. Like a racehorse.
He will not question this.
This is the way it is.
And this is the way it will stay, until the punishment is passed to the people who set up, co-ordinate and administer the dope.
These people are the team medic and the DS. When these people get punished for doping, then you will know cycling no longer accepts doping as a normal part of the sport.

Up until then... well, yeah.

 

[flashback]

I dunno... i just read what I posted up there. It is just so blindingly obvious. Does anyone seriously think that these riders are personally outwitting the biochemistry labs throughout the world?
Does anyone think that? Does anyone think these riders know the slightest bit about drug metabolism rates, dosage rates, optimum levels, safe levels, clearance times, high performance liquid chromatography signatures, masking agents, and so on?
Are all of these guys knocking out MDs in their spare time?

Its the most fucking retarded thing I have ever heard.
Your options :
Ride with team, and medicate along with all other members of team.
Don't, and retire from cycling.


That is it. They are your choices. The cyclists are victims. They are not the ones that you get angry with.

Unfortunately, like child molesters and their victims, they go on to do the same shit on the next generation.
But, like I said, no one cares. It's cycling's dirty little secret. Except its not a secret.

 

[CinnamonBoy]

Fuck saying fair play Bjarne! He only confessed as he was in a corner. He should have confessed years ago. I'm sure guys like Mark Scanlon would have appreciated it.


Armstrong once said this:

"Finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the skeptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles"

What a prick.

And this:

''All I can do is come on this stage and tell my story and be honest. I've always done that,'' he said. 'I sleep great at night .... I don't have a problem looking at myself in the mirror.''


Riders are victims, it's true, but some of them are very content to lie continually, rake in the money and bully anyone in the peloton who dares to come clean to the world (Armstrong bullying that Simeoni guy etc.). It's hard to call these guys "victims".

 

[magicbastarder]

call me naive, but i like to think armstrong is clean.

 

[CinnamonBoy]

What a mess:

"In relation to Riis, I believe it was mentioned at the press conference that if ASO came to him looking for the jersey, he would give it back to them. I think that ethically he should consider this and offer his jersey back."


Of course, that would raise the problem of who should be crowned Tour champion for that year. Given that Jan Ullrich (2nd) has been seriously implicated in Operación Puerto, being linked to Eufemiano Fuentes through DNA blood matching, and the third and fourth-placed riders Richard Virenque and Laurent Dufaux were involved in the Festina Affair, it would be a difficult decision to take.


McQuaid feels there is another way. "As regards the dilemma of who was below him, I think the way to sort that out is to declare that there was no winner of the race in 1996," he said. "I wouldn't even think of going down the classification [to pinpoint a clean winner].

"If ASO decide to do that [demand the yellow jersey back], the UCI won't object."

 

[IFF]

Fuck saying fair play Bjarne! He only confessed as he was in a corner. He should have confessed years ago. I'm sure guys like Mark Scanlon would have appreciated it.


Armstrong once said this:

"Finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the skeptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles"

What a prick.

And this:

''All I can do is come on this stage and tell my story and be honest. I've always done that,'' he said. 'I sleep great at night .... I don't have a problem looking at myself in the mirror.''


Riders are victims, it's true, but some of them are very content to lie continually, rake in the money and bully anyone in the peloton who dares to come clean to the world (Armstrong bullying that Simeoni guy etc.). It's hard to call these guys "victims".

and as proof of the dirsregard for pro's who have spoke out during their career

bassons (outspoken in 1998 and 1999) was forced out of the peloton for saying what he did

simeoni now with the continental team Arum Hotels (a 3rd division team). this is 2 or 3 years after he rode the tour de france. Whistleblowers aren't treated well

sure a month ago when d'hondt released his book, i recall riis and his csc team saying we should look to the future and not to the past and that d'hondt is only in it for money

"We talked about it, and our attitude is that we cannot comment on these speculations. Speculations abound, and we cannot express an opinion on everything. We have full understanding for the fact that Bjarne [Riis] doesn't want to spend an awful lot of time on it if someone who has a personal interest talks about something that happened ten years ago,"
Egeblad, 1 may 2006, head of spnosrship for csc

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/may07/may01news4

 

[Eugene]

its been mentioned here a few times about how Filippo Simeoni was treated after admitting to doping, and it was really bizarre about how he was treated;

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/tour04/?id=results/stage18

Armstrong coming up and intimidating him for what he testified about, this is what Armstong told journalists after;

"The story of Simeoni is not a fair story...there's a long history there. All (journalists) want to write about is parts of the story. It's a long history...a guy like (Simeoni), all he wants to do is to destroy cycling...and for me, that's not correct. And I when I went back to the group they said 'chapeau'...thank you very much. Because they understand that (cycling) is their job and that they absolutely love it and they're committed to it and don't want somebody within their sport destroying it. So...for me it's no problem to go on the wheel, to follow the wheel."

The funny thing is that theres such a strong PR campaign by Armstrong, such a machinery of hype, just like a massive American Politican, that so much people believe him to be a clean athlete, but with behaviour like this, he has shown his true colours.

At least Riis finally did some forward, he was challenged by d'Honts book but he could have alternatively lawyered up like Landis and Armstrong. The funny thing is that Riis finished two places behind Kimmage in giro of 89 so Kimmage could have won the Tour if he hadnt been so honest, jaysus maybe he would have won it 5 times?!

 

[nuke terrorist]

the doctor Riis worked with and still works with some of the CSC team was described in the press conference as being misunderstood.
Luigi Cecchini worked with Ullrich, Hamilton and Basso among many others.
the Italian press alleged the other week that he had introduced riders to the Fuentes clinic.

I was under no illusions and respect the riders for confessing. I hated Riis for years but now find him refreshingly honest and a lot more likeable.
none of the riders gave any info on anyone else but Riis need to give details on Cecchini.
Basso is still lying to protect his Giro victory.
yeah, it's time the doctors were brought to account but the riders need to stop protecting them if that's to happen. but Fillipo Simeoni will tell you doing that wrecked his career.
the teams management coinfessing would be a huge step forward.
some sort of amnesty is being talked about by Mc Quaid - if your're facing a four year pro tour ban then confessing doesn't seem very attractive.

but whatever Hamilton and Landis types who continue to lie through their teeth need life bans.

some of the stuff that has come out is crazy. Teammates Hamilton and Santiago Perez tested positive for transfusions of others peoples blood, the only riders to do so it's believed their blood got mixed up as they had the same blood type.

 

[nofriendo]

It takes balls to admit it, and maybe this will help the sport.

At least Riis finally did some forward, he was challenged by d'Honts book but he could have alternatively lawyered up like Landis and Armstrong. The funny thing is that Riis finished two places behind Kimmage in giro of 89 so Kimmage could have won the Tour if he hadnt been so honest, jaysus maybe he would have won it 5 times?!

I really dont think it takes balls to come forward, more like common sense. When so much of his tour winning team have come out and said they doped it would be stupid not to admit it. After zabel come out riis would have been questioned over this, if he didnt admit it it would have dragged on and on and perhaps cost him his position in team csc. When it comes to admitting 'doping' in almost all cases it is only admitted when it may prove more beneficial to 'admit' than deny.

call me naive, but i like to think armstrong is clean.

Naive

 

[rettucs]

I dunno... i just read what I posted up there. It is just so blindingly obvious. Does anyone seriously think that these riders are personally outwitting the biochemistry labs throughout the world?
Does anyone think that? Does anyone think these riders know the slightest bit about drug metabolism rates, dosage rates, optimum levels, safe levels, clearance times, high performance liquid chromatography signatures, masking agents, and so on?
Are all of these guys knocking out MDs in their spare time?

flashback, I agree with you in the main. However, I think there are exceptions, the most notable of which is Armstrong himself. I always reckoned he had more control over his teams (both USPS and Discovery) than either Brunyeel or Yates. I reckon whatever he was on, or whatever he was taking (or the likes of Hincapie, Salvodelli or Heras), he had full knowledge of, and was probably even advising the team doctors of.

I'd also put Tyler Hamilton in that category. Remember the tour he rode with a broken collarbone, including the stage win he had where he rode off on his own for about 100km?

magicbastarder, a lot of people are of the same opinion as you about Armstrong. He was always able to explain away his amazing endurance by claiming that he had an abnormally high lung capacity (3 times greater than your average person) and that his ability to process oxygen in his body was abnormally high. His teams (those that he rode with as leader - USPS and Discovery) always prided themselves on the fact that no rider ever tested positive. I used to laugh at this because it always came across that they were happy about the fact that no one tested positive, as opposed to emphasising that their riders were clean. More as if it was a victory for the doctors than for the riders.

Several USPS and Discovery riders tested positive after leaving the teams. Most notably, Roberto Heras, Tyler Hamilton and of course Floyd Landis. Then, whatever shred of credibility the team had went out the window when they went and signed Basso. Arguably the most controversial rider in the world (maybe barring Ullrich), caught up in the Puerto Affair at the time. All protour teams, with the exception of Discovery made an agreement that they wouldn't sign any rider caught up in that scandal. Then Discovery went ahead and signed Basso anyway. What has happened since is justice really, and all the other teams must be fairly smug.

Anyway, the point being, the fact that Discovery signed Basso shows the level of morals they have. Its shows the environment that must exist in the team. And that environment was carved out by Mr.Armstrong himself since 1999, when he returned to competition after his illness. The fact that those other riders were caught once leaving Discovery/USPS goes to show that they had the best doctors and masking agents.

But, they have obviously changed their ways of late. They have been performing miserably this year, most notably in the current Giro where they have nothing to show.

And flashback, as to whether the peleton are still doping. My belief is that the top riders are, but on a far more scaled down version than before. The times they are posting on their stages (particularly time trials) are testament to that. I don't think teams ever really wasted much money on their domestiques and put all their EPO eggs into their team leaders. I think the French were first to clean up their act, and their poor results since Richard Virenque's fall from grace is proof of that. I'm still suspicious of the Italians, particularly the likes of Cunego, SImoni, Di Luca, Mazzoleni, Salvodeli - basically all those leading the GC in the Giro. And one can't but be as suspicious as hell of the Astana team. The whole team was thrown out of the tour dr france last year. Then they had the winner and third place (I think) of the Vuelta (and I'd expect they'll provide the winner of the tour this year too - assuming Valverde doesn't take the start line, which I expect he won't). Dodgy as hell.

I wonder what will become of the CSC team now with Riis' admission. It will be a real shame if they have to disband or if their sponsorship is pulled. They are one of the most entertaining teams in the sport and compete in every race. Hopefully it won't come to that.