Ireland (6 Viewers)

It's unclear, but there is some evidence that we have, see Early anthropocene - Wikipedia ... also I've an archaelogist friend who talks about the climate impact of European deforestation in the middle ages, but can't find anything online about it right now

Maybe without capitalism we'd have burned the fossil fuels slower, but eventually we'd burn enough of them to get to where we are now under any system (unless maybe the human population is very small?)

I don't think the human population size is an issue either. More so the hoarding of resources by a few of us.
 
Here's more https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/2015RG000503

4.4 Conclusions​


The late Holocene stands apart from equivalent intervals in other interglaciations of the last 800,000 years by registering greenhouse gas increases instead of decreases and in showing regional temperature stability in most regions instead of a shift toward glacial conditions (section 2). These anomalous responses implicate anthropogenic interference in the climate system. Independent ground truth estimates of CH4 and CO2 emissions sufficient to account for substantial parts of these inferred anomalies come from syntheses of archaeological and paleoecological data and from land use modeling (section 3). After more than a decade of debate over whether late Holocene climate was natural or anthropogenic, the convergence of evidence from these several branches of scientific inquiry points to a major anthropogenic influence.

(as far as I can tell "late Holocene" means the last 4200 years)
 
I also can't imagine any human social system where we'd be easily able to put the brakes on at this stage
A lot of the social systems that European settlers wiped out were doing a good job living in harmony with the planet
But right now, we are living in a planet dominated by western capitalism

When we talk about 'capitalism', we are talking about the decimation of native populations worldwide and the imposition of our systems on them
Capitalism was put on the planet the way the English language was put on us


I don't really have a point here, just been thinking a lot about this stuff lately
 
A lot of the social systems that European settlers wiped out were doing a good job living in harmony with the planet
But right now, we are living in a planet dominated by western capitalism

When we talk about 'capitalism', we are talking about the decimation of native populations worldwide and the imposition of our systems on them
Capitalism was put on the planet the way the English language was put on us


I don't really have a point here, just been thinking a lot about this stuff lately
Its a good thing to ponder: and the below is not a justification for capitalism;
bit - Its a bit of a tautology really - you need systems of a certain level of advancement to allow you to advance from feudalism, centralised states, to mercantile capitalism, through to industrialism

All along your population is growing as a consequence of wealth, resources, new crops flowing in from regions elsewhere. (google impact of potato on European population), which requires more resources, but also provides the labor to more to the next phase in terms of imperialism and industrialisation.

did captialism emerge as the dominant system because it was the system of the powers that through a convergence of factors emerged as dominant forces when globally technology in sailing metallurgy etc had reached a certain point, or was some variant of capitalism the only structure which would allow the level of material and technological development that allows me to be shiting on on thumped as opposed to most likely already being dead in a less materially and technologically developed culture.
 
Yep, we are led by awful eejits.
the dairy herd in Ireland increased by a huge margin in the last decade or two - insane. the government fully encouraged this policy and now there are 1.6 million cows.
I worked on a piggery from 1990-93 for about 55 weeks in total. there was three artic truck loads of feed coming in every week and the water consumption is far more staggering.

the pigs ate 8 kg of feed for every 1 kg they gained in weight.
I imagine it was a lot like this?

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I don't really see that our political/economic system makes much of a difference - the problem is we discovered fossil fuels, and we burned them. Would we have burned them more slowly under another system? Maybe, but I really can't imagine humans finding something that's so useful, and then not using it. Maybe if the world was some kind of theocracy and oil and coal were sacred?

there’s a book I was browsing a while ago that takes this as a jumping-off point, imagining how things might have gone if the russian revolution had actually managed to spread in the 1920s to germany, france, italy, and america (as seemed quite likely at the time). it basically starts out with the thought experiment of a peaceful communist world, which nonetheless *still* has to solve climate change, and imagines how there could be global collaboration on these kinds of questions if we weren’t all paralysed by capital
 
imagines how there could be global collaboration on these kinds of questions if we weren’t all paralysed by capital
Sounds like an interesting book, but ... well, I dunno if capital is the problem here either. Collaboration is very often more difficult in my current almost-anarchist workplace than in any of the more hierarchical places I've worked in.
 
largely down to them not having populations big enough to make enough of a dent.

Went poking around a website to look at it a bit more - kinda processing out loud here more than anything.

The current population to pollution stats vary greatly all over the world generally peaking if you are from qatar (go football!) per capita carbon and 'undeveloped' having almost no impact in comparison. The average is around 5tons

that site says we pollute the 68th most on earth, and rank 124th in population.

*there's gotta be a spectrum here - undeveloped, developed but sustainable, developed but unsustainable.

The internet says that 3 tons per capita is the sustainable amount at the minute. current countries in that range that are even remotely comparable to Ireland are Moldova and Romania, the rest are all warm already.
 
just to clarify - that comment was in relation to what 'native' populations were up to before europeans arrived. i just have an (as far as i know, somewhat justified) mistrust of the narrative that these people lived like adam and eve in eden before we turned up.
 
there’s a book I was browsing a while ago that takes this as a jumping-off point, imagining how things might have gone if the russian revolution had actually managed to spread in the 1920s to germany, france, italy, and america (as seemed quite likely at the time). it basically starts out with the thought experiment of a peaceful communist world, which nonetheless *still* has to solve climate change, and imagines how there could be global collaboration on these kinds of questions if we weren’t all paralysed by capital

Communism was an utter catastrophe
It failed everywhere, even China has copped to that
It was abject misery for its European citizens - look at the two Germanies. Which one would any sane person have picked to live in?
Look what it's done to Russia. A broken country.

Are people genuinely wistful for this shitshow of repression, lies and death?
A "peaceful communist world".
Such a paradise, they shoot you in the back if you try to leave.
 
A man walks into an East German restaurant and orders a basic meat and three veg meal. But he says "Sorry, I can't have carrots"

The waiter runs away in a panic. Then returns and says "I'm sorry sir, we're out of carrots. But there are peas we can not give you instead."

- that's a Werner Herzog joke. Go me.
 
Communism was an utter catastrophe
It failed everywhere, even China has copped to that
It was abject misery for its European citizens - look at the two Germanies. Which one would any sane person have picked to live in?
Look what it's done to Russia. A broken country.

Are people genuinely wistful for this shitshow of repression, lies and death?
A "peaceful communist world".
Such a paradise, they shoot you in the back if you try to leave.

ok man
 

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