BREXIT (8 Viewers)

[egg_]

I'll give you soft left as a generosity. Would you describe the Irish Labour party as left wing? Would you describe tony Blair as left wing?

Hehe touché. Soft left I guess. Tony Blair's government made museums in the UK free again, iirc, introduced minimum wage, increased public spending. They self-identify as left-wing, which means the voting public sees them as "the left", whether or not you or I think they should be part of our club

 

[ann post]

Trying to think of a response so left wing it turns both Egg and Moose against themselves and each other simultaneously.

 

[Space]

Hehe touché. Soft left I guess. Tony Blair's government made museums in the UK free again, iirc, introduced minimum wage, increased public spending. They self-identify as left-wing, which means the voting public sees them as "the left", whether or not you or I think they should be part of our club

I'm not part of any political club. Given how well the Labour Party of Ireland did in the last couple elections I don't think the voting public see them as the left at all. Same could be said about British Labour or to reference your Scotsman link British Labour in Scotland have done really badly for quite a while due to not being seen as the left by the voting public there either.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Yeah I don't think the public sees Labour 2020 as left-wing, and certainly they didn't see Blair as that. The problem seems to be getting the public to think left wing is a good thing, even in Ireland half the people (and probably 75%+ of the over 35's) still seem to see the whole thing as good guy Rambo fighting USSR Commie-Nazi Putin Corbyn. "Sure what about all the people who died under Stalin?" etc.

Elon Musk and Jeff Besoz are still big heroes to people : /

 

[flashback]

You know who loved socialism so much he named his own political party after it?

That's right. Hitler.

And just looking over my numbers, if they had privatized the railways and gas chambers, they could have upped efficiency in excess of 20%.

 

[Lili Marlene]

 

[Space]

You know who loved socialism so much he named his own political party after it?

That's right. Hitler.

And just looking over my numbers, if they had privatized the railways and gas chambers, they could have upped efficiency in excess of 20%.

I stopped myself from saying the National Socialists self identified as socialists.

Yeah I don't think the public sees Labour 2020 as left-wing, and certainly they didn't see Blair as that. The problem seems to be getting the public to think left wing is a good thing, even in Ireland half the people (and probably 75%+ of the over 35's) still seem to see the whole thing as good guy Rambo fighting USSR Commie-Nazi Putin Corbyn. "Sure what about all the people who died under Stalin?" etc.

Elon Musk and Jeff Besoz are still big heroes to people : /

100%.

80 (2000) years of capitalist propaganda from the ruling classes will do that.

 

[Space]

Trying to think of a response so left wing it turns both Egg and Moose against themselves and each other simultaneously.

 

[egg_]

Yeah I don't think the public sees Labour 2020 as left-wing, and certainly they didn't see Blair as that.

I lived in England when Blair got elected and I disagree. Obvs they didn't see him as socialist, but in my memory people saw a vote for him as a vote to move economic policy leftward

 

[egg_]

... but in fairness there's probably nothing more pointless than arguing about what The Common Man really thinks or, worse, thought in 1997. Who the fuck knows?

 

[Lili Marlene]

... but in fairness there's probably nothing more pointless than arguing about what The Common Man really thinks or, worse, thought in 1997. Who the fuck knows?

Yeah was gonna say, people might have thought whatever in 1997, but his record after that is what it is.

 

[Cormcolash]

Things can only get better

 

[ann post]

Things can only get better

That was the peace process really when you think about it.

 

[Space]

... but in fairness there's probably nothing more pointless than arguing about what The Common Man really thinks or, worse, thought in 1997. Who the fuck knows?

Just to be clear I was approaching this from the here and now rather than some kinda magical form of looking at it from the viewpoint of 1997 and ignoring what we know about him since then.

 

[chris d]

Remember that David Davis guy who didn't absolutely no work at all for 2 years. I often think about him.

 

[Lili Marlene]

Populist Senator Founds ‘Italexit’ Party to Quit EU, Ditch Euro

Populist Senator Founds ‘Italexit’ Party to Quit EU, Ditch Euro

A Brexit-inspired populist senator has launched an Italian political party committed to pulling the country out of the European Union and ditching the euro, dismissing the bloc as a “Germanic” construct.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Lili Marlene]

There's something here that is very much summing up the current culture war moment:

I'd say Piers is correct (to an extent anyway, it's not like most people are against wokeness when it's presented as basic decency) :

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but also i'd say Ash's response is also correct:

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anyway thought i'd put it in this thread for posterity or something I dunno

 

[egg_]

But this demand didn’t come from the left

IMO whether a particular demand came from "the left" is neither here nor there. There is a large and very public cohort on twitter that identifies as left and does demand what regular people regard as "dumb woke stuff".

FWIW the Green movement has had this kind of problem forever. Remember the crusties protesting the widening of the road in the Glen of the Downs in the 90s? I went to a debate about that at the time, and one of the protestors introduced himself as "a tree shepherd". A fucking tree shepherd lads. He basically torpedoed his side's entire case

 

[Lili Marlene]

Haha a tree shepherd fucking hell. Gimme that job though.

Of course, 25 years ago being gay was reason enough to be, uh, cancelled (for want of a better term) so you can't say nothing or nothing will change. hmm


but also

 

[magicbastarder]

i guess he was just an ent?