The Uninhabitable Ireland (3 Viewers)

[ernesto]

In the realm of spitballing, fantasy, throwing ideas around I think there is some argument for having some kind of fuel card system tied to car taxation where people from different locations pay different fuel taxes. Like if you live on 2 bus routes and a luas line and are driving a giant Best case scenario, all cars off the road in 90 days from today*

*will explain this later...

APOCOLYPSE!’

As per the thread title the planet is to become uninhabitable over the course of a single lifetime and you're worried that a few people will have to pay a bit more for diesel?

No I’m talking about an ever increasing disparity between the rich and poor, until there is viable alternatives.

LIKE RETROFITTING ELECTRIC MOTORS TO CARS

 

[ernesto]

What do you mean "in theory"? In practice it works, and it's simple. You said "money can't unpollute the atmosphere". You are wrong. Just because we're not doing it doesn't mean it can't be done

I mean it’s great yes but is it possible on this island that you’d run out of green area eventually to offset enough carbon produced?

 

[egg_]

It's not just the carbon sequestration from trees/soil in a forest - if the forest replaced grazing land for cattle then you'd be preventing the methane emissions too

Honestly I have no idea what kind of dent it'd make in our carbon budget (and neither do you ... but I bet somebody's done the research). I'm just trying to make the point that we can spend money to fix the problem (or at least to make it less bad)

 

[ann post]

We can't eat fucking trees egg

 

[egg_]

We export 70% of our beef

 

[ann post]

We export 70% of our beef

With all due respect, I was using sarcasm to take a cheap shot.

 

[egg_]

Oh!

Ok. I don't really know what you meant then, sorry

 

[ernesto]

Oh!

Ok. I don't really know what you meant then, sorry

Maybe that we’ll have nowhere to grow our veg and grains and stuff?

According to google. One acre is enough to offset 18 people......
That amounts to an area the size of Longford for a population of 5 million

Also factor in the fact you’d have to wait 30-40 years for the benefits and this population increasing.

It’s not that I think it’s a bad idea,
Just that a money deterrent to use less fossil fuels is not enough, by a long shot.
We need a radical big change and this government is not interested.
Sure Why aren’t Leo and co being driven around in EVs setting examples? We need to stop using fossil fuels entirely, AND badly need alternatives

 

[ernesto]

Maybe that we’ll have nowhere to grow our veg and grains and stuff?

According to google. One acre is enough to offset 18 people......
That amounts to an area the size of Longford for a population of 5 million

Also factor in the fact you’d have to wait 30-40 years for the benefits and this population increasing.

It’s not that I think it’s a bad idea,
Just that a money deterrent to use less fossil fuels is not enough, by a long shot.
We need a radical big change and this government is not interested.
Sure Why aren’t Leo and co being driven around in EVs setting examples? We need to stop using fossil fuels entirely, AND badly need alternatives

that’s probably
What that article piece explains better than the point I’m trying to articulate.

 

[pete]

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This used to take about 2 hours each way, terminus to terminus, which according to Dublin Bus was the longest (by time) route in the city at the time... but it's only about 25km

UCD Belfield to Ongar Distributor Road

goo.gl

 

[egg_]

Just that a money deterrent to use less fossil fuels is not enough, by a long shot.

I agree with you there. But paying more for carbon intensive activities is going to be a key part of what's coming

See here Recommendations on how the State can make Ireland a leader in tackling climate change - The Citizens' Assembly

 

[egg_]

I did a few sums on converting beef-grazing land to forest:

A cow produces around 2.3 tonnes of CO2-equivalent emissions per year Are cows the cause of global warming? | Time for change
You need 0.184 hectares of grazing land per cow Grazing Infrastructure - Teagasc | Agriculture and Food Development Authority
So each hectare of beef-grazing land emits around 12.5 tonnes of CO2-equivalent per year

Irish forests sequester on average 3.36 tonnes of CO2 per hectare per year
So converting beef-grazing land to forest offsets around 15.86 tonnes of CO2 per year per hectare. Cost of an acre of farmland is around €25k/hectare 2018 agricultural land values rose steadily

Cost of planting a forest is around EUR3k per hectare Reforestation - Teagasc | Agriculture and Food Development Authority

So the cost of offsetting 1 tonne of carbon per year by converting beef-grazing land to forest is around €1750

Ireland's total emissions are around 61 million tonnes per year Slight decrease in Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions
So to offset it ALL would take over a hundred billion quid, and a little more grazing land than actually exists in the country (and not all of that is beef anyway)
To offset 3% of it that way would take 3 billion quid, which is around half of our total annual government spending. To do it over 10 years would require 5% of our total annual govt spending every year

/me shrugs

I dunno why I'm sharing this, really, but I did the sums and had to tell someone

 

[Lili Marlene]

Some estimated figures from the book:

1) A conservative climate change trajectory, if no changes are made, is that the planet will be over 4 degrees warmer by the year 2100
2) 3.7 degrees of warming would produce $551 trillion in damages
3) total worldwide wealth is about $280 trillion.

and this is ignoring the hundreds of millions, if not billions, of deaths that would occur.

 

[ann post]

I did a few sums on converting beef-grazing land to forest:

A cow produces around 2.3 tonnes of CO2-equivalent emissions per year Are cows the cause of global warming? | Time for change
You need 0.184 hectares of grazing land per cow Grazing Infrastructure - Teagasc | Agriculture and Food Development Authority
So each hectare of beef-grazing land emits around 12.5 tonnes of CO2-equivalent per year

Irish forests sequester on average 3.36 tonnes of CO2 per hectare per year
So converting beef-grazing land to forest offsets around 15.86 tonnes of CO2 per year per hectare. Cost of an acre of farmland is around €25k/hectare 2018 agricultural land values rose steadily

Cost of planting a forest is around EUR3k per hectare Reforestation - Teagasc | Agriculture and Food Development Authority

So the cost of offsetting 1 tonne of carbon per year by converting beef-grazing land to is around €1750

Ireland's total emissions are around 61 million tonnes per year Slight decrease in Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions
So to offset it ALL would take over a hundred billion quid, and a little more grazing land than actually exists in the country (and not all of that is beef anyway)
To offset 3% of it that way would take 3 billion quid, which is around half of our total annual government spending. To do it over 10 years would require 5% of our total annual govt spending every year

/me shrugs

I dunno why I'm sharing this, really, but I did the sums and had to tell someone

Thanks.

 

[hermie]

I did a few sums on converting beef-grazing land to forest:

A cow produces around 2.3 tonnes of CO2-equivalent emissions per year Are cows the cause of global warming? | Time for change
You need 0.184 hectares of grazing land per cow Grazing Infrastructure - Teagasc | Agriculture and Food Development Authority
So each hectare of beef-grazing land emits around 12.5 tonnes of CO2-equivalent per year

Irish forests sequester on average 3.36 tonnes of CO2 per hectare per year
So converting beef-grazing land to forest offsets around 15.86 tonnes of CO2 per year per hectare. Cost of an acre of farmland is around €25k/hectare 2018 agricultural land values rose steadily

Cost of planting a forest is around EUR3k per hectare Reforestation - Teagasc | Agriculture and Food Development Authority

So the cost of offsetting 1 tonne of carbon per year by converting beef-grazing land to is around €1750

Ireland's total emissions are around 61 million tonnes per year Slight decrease in Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions
So to offset it ALL would take over a hundred billion quid, and a little more grazing land than actually exists in the country (and not all of that is beef anyway)
To offset 3% of it that way would take 3 billion quid, which is around half of our total annual government spending. To do it over 10 years would require 5% of our total annual govt spending every year

/me shrugs

I dunno why I'm sharing this, really, but I did the sums and had to tell someone

But you don't have to purchase the farmland, you just have to incentivise reforestation on that land ahead of grazing livestock so the costs may not be quite so astronomical. Huge amounts of money are poured into agriculture already, not least by CAP. This has to change and funds diverted. Also all the money doesn't have to come from our own coffers. Greta Thunberg just won a trillion euro pledge from the EU.

Of course it can't all come from reforestation. Closing Moneypoint will be a big one among other things.

 

[egg_]

Greta Thunberg just won a trillion euro pledge from the EU.

That money kinda does come from our own coffers, really. The EU has to get that money from its member states

 

[ann post]

No sure if its for here or the hellworld thread, but when the europeans 'settled' (annihilated) north america, wiping out the population through both new diseases and murder shortly afterword came a very low carbon count in the atmostphere because reducing the natives from 60 to 6 million gave the trees a break from being harvested.

 

[hermie]

That money kinda does come from our own coffers, really. The EU has to get that money from its member states

Yeah but surely that's being redirected from elsewhere rather than all member states upping their contributions. Unless it's funded by fines, in which case we'll be the biggest contributor per capita!

But again that comes back to, you're going to be spending huge money anyway, may as well attempt to solve the problem as best you can.

 

[egg_]

No sure if its for here or the hellworld thread, but when the europeans 'settled' (annihilated) north america, wiping out the population through both new diseases and murder shortly afterword came a very low carbon count in the atmostphere because reducing the natives from 60 to 6 million gave the trees a break from being harvested.

Little Ice Age - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ernesto]

Little Ice Age - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So we need to wipe out a few million people. How are we going to decide on who to cull??